Why Couldn’t Hughes or Joba be Verlander?
By Mike Silva ~ February 4th, 2010. Filed under: New York Yankees.
One last thing on the whole “handling of young pitchers” and the Yankees.
If the Yankees believe that these two kids can be elite pitchers, and we know they do, then why are we they handling, no pun intended, them with kid gloves?
Justin Verlander just signed a 5 year $80 million dollar deal with Detroit. He is entering his age 27 season and has a no hitter, won 60% of his decisions, finished top 5 in the Cy Young twice, and won Rookie of the Year.
At the same age as Hughes, he pitched 200 innings, put up an ERA+ of 125, and won 18 games. Just two years earlier he pitched 118 innings in the minor leagues. This was after averaging about 110 innings at Old Dominion. Hughes between the majors and minors last year pitched 105 innings. He has pitched as much as 146 innings in the minors. Why can’t he pitched the full season and throw 175 to 180 innings?
Chamberlain is a bit different. He didn’t pitch much in college (208 innings in two years), but entering his age 24 season he is threw 157 innings in the rotation last year. The Yankees have indicated the limitations are over, but if he spends the season in the bullpen then what? He throws about 80 innings and, if they want to start him next year, are we back to the same situation? I believe the best place for him is AAA as a starter this year. The Yanks have enough bullpen arms to get them to Rivera.
The point is look at the Tigers and how they threw Verlander into the mix. He was a full time starter by the age of 23 and helped them win the pennant, beating the Yankees along the way. Now he is a fully established elite starter. Granted, Hughes and Chamberlain have had injuries, but I wonder if the plan is to blame. You have to believe both these kids should be further along at the current time than they are.
It appears to me the Yanks haven’t really learned from their failures with Chamberlain and adjusted. I know there is a fine line between “abuse” and “development”, but the Yanks have come nowhere near the gray area.
You drive your car everyday and hope you don’t get into an accident. No one limits their miles to stay off the road for fear of something bad happening. Usually, when you worry about the worst case scenario, that is exactly what happens.
February 4th, 2010 at 8:39 am
Of course this article ignores Verlander’s disaster of a 2008, which many people thougth was becasue his innings ramped to fast. Additionally, the problem with the car reference is that when one gets a new car they are not supposed to slam the accelerator right off the bat. You are supposed to break the car in a little bit.
February 4th, 2010 at 8:51 am
This is a silly argument, it is like people arguing that smoking can’t be dangerous because “My grandmother smoked 2 packs a day and lived to be 100.” Verlander may be an aberration, and as noted by Lou, he had a pretty poor 2008 which may or may not be related to his heavy innings load in 2007. The Yankees are exercising due diligence. I guarantee if they throw Hughes 180 innings and he blows out his elbow, this blog will be bashing the Yanks’ poor judgment.
February 4th, 2010 at 10:08 am
mike u cant be serious about not believing in restrictions for young starters to protect their arms
February 4th, 2010 at 11:07 am
Again, money rules the sport. Coddling of pitchers to protect investments leads to lower expectations and pitching stats for starters and lesser quality starters as more are needed (and the number of MLB teams watering down the talent pool overall). What would Seaver or Gooden been in their early years if they used pitch counts? Not winning the number of games or striking out 200+ batters, that’s for sure. But they, their predecessors and their contemporaries survived it if they were quality pitchers. When a teams ace, such as a Santana, is pitching great, with 15 K’s after 7 innings he should be pulled only if he obviously isn’t up to any more. But to pull him so you can put in someone from the bullpen with a 5.60 era and 4 K’s/9 inn, just because Santana’s thrown 110 pitches makes no sense. It isn’t an improvement, but money rules now, and unfortunately, forever, in baseball.
February 4th, 2010 at 11:20 am
Ken
I never said I didn’t believe in innings limitations, etc. I am a huge believer in what Rick Peterson preaches over at 3p
What I don’t believe, is that the Yankees have stayed the course with their plan, specifically Joba, they have botched a concept and stunted his development. Now they are going down the same path with Hughes. If it didn’t work well for one, how can you believe it will for the other?
February 4th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
Yankees blow money at a pitching problem.
Tigers blow money on experienced coaches at a pitching problem.
Tigers have class, Yankees have money.
Thats why Verlander is staying in Detroit.
Knapp & Leyland watch pitch counts and innings very closely the first year for young pitcher and injuries you can not control, i.e. Zumaya.
On another note, please keep old Damon. Comerica Park is way to big for him to cover at his age. Although he could take more roids. I am sure Arod has some or have you guys chosen to forget about last Spring.
Did I mention that we have possible 4 guys who throw over 100 mph.
Go Tigers