The Secret to Playing in New York
By Mike Silva ~ December 31st, 2009. Filed under: Mike Silva, New York Mets, New York Yankees.
There is always debate about whether playing in New York is different than other places. Some scoff at the “New York type of player” since, if they produce, the city will love them. Maybe so, but how do you explain someone like Ed Whitson failing here, while Paul O’ Neill revived his career, and thrived, playing for the Yankees. The Mets have a history of players breaking down after acquiring them, but even productive stars, like Bobby Bonilla, had issues throughout their New York tenure. It got me to thinking about the newest members to the area – Curtis Granderson and Jason Bay.
Former big leaguer Sean Casey gave the Daily News a great quote from former Mets catcher Mike Piazza:
Casey, an analyst for the MLB Network, recalled in a telephone interview Wednesday that Mike Piazza once told him that there was no secret formula to thriving in New York: “We were talking at first base one day and he said, ‘If you play hard, give everything you’ve got, don’t say much and put up numbers, they’ll love you.’
It’s really that simple, yet complicated. Look at the newest Met, Jeff Francoeur, who came here with all sorts of warts on his game. He embraced the city, produced, and played hard on a torn thumb. He very well may now be the most popular Met behind homegrown David Wright. Cliff Floyd, another gamer, endeared himself to the New York fans when he played as long as he could on a bum Achilles back in 2003. There was really no reason for Floyd, just like Franceoeur, to play so long for a bad team, but he wanted to show the fans that he wasn’t just another free agent mercenary who took the Mets money and ran. Three years later he tried his best to do the same during the 06′ playoffs, but his other Achilles finally gave out.
Across town O’Neill is a prime example of what Piazza described. You could also name a number of Yankees from the nineties like Tino Martinez, Scott Brosius, and David Cone. Perhaps the secret to Derek Jeter is that he follows the Piazza blueprint. Some of the newer Yankees, like Mark Teixeira and CC Sabathia, fit into that bill as well.
Oh, and as for Piazza, he is the perfect guy to look at for any star coming to this town. He struggled his first few months here and was booed endlessly, and in my opinion, unfairly, by the fickle New York Mets crowd. He shut his mouth, didn’t complain, and put up an historic September (6 HR, 22 RBI, OPS of 1.177) nearly carrying a flawed Mets team to the postseason all by himself.
The point of the piece is how Casey believes Jason Bay will become the latest star to endear himself to New York. The Mets need more players with the “grit” of an O’ Neill, Francoeur, and Cliff Floyd. Of course, the need to produce as well, which shouldn’t be a problem for Jason Bay despite the exaggerations about Citi Field.
Both teams acquired new stars this offseason. If Curtis Granderson and Jason Bay are smart they would listen to the advice from a star of New York’s past.
December 31st, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Hate to say this, but just today CCN/SI had one of their big commentators write an article about how Bay will not make it in NY and compares him to what happened when George Foster came over in 1982. The article has no basis, so I’m kind of upset at the comparison.
However, CNN/SI also published its list of the top 25 franchises in the four big sports today. Yankees are #5, of course the Mets are not anywhere near the list. It would be great if we had owners that tried to go all the way, so maybe just once we can put together a string (or even one) playoff seasons…
December 31st, 2009 at 1:28 pm
Mike, if I understand your opening lines, you are presenting an hypothesis, something like, ‘playing in New York has an effect on the quality of some players’ on-field performance that is different than the effect of playing in other places’. You then support this hypothesis with the following logic “… how [else] do you explain someone like Ed Whitson failing here, while Paul O’ Neill revived his career, and thrived, playing for the Yankees. ”
Players get better or worse during their careers for lots of reasons. Although there is a standard expected arc of a player’s career, that is just an average, from which there are many, many exceptions. These exceptions occur in every city, every year. It is certainly not logically necessary to conclude from the changes in career direction of Ed Whitson and Paul O’Neill that those changes were caused by a hypothetical “New York effect”.
Your entry then seems to change direction into a discussion that seems to be more about how fans react to players who come to New York, then about a specific “New York effect” that changes player performance. I think it is fair to say that, generally speaking, players who play well in New York will be hailed by fans and players who play poorly in New York will be unloved by fans. There are more people and more media here, so the volume of such reaction in each direction is likely to be greater here. But I’m not sure that there’s much difference in nature in this respect in New York as opposed to most other places.
But to return to the original notion of a “New York effect” on player performance, your pointing to a few players who got better or got worse after coming to New York is not proof of a special “New York effect”. Every year lots of of players get better and lots of players get worse. That happens in every city. In order to really show a “New York effect”, one would need to test the level of variation in player performance in all cities generally, and then see if there is greater variation in player performance when players move to New York than there is in general. A few anecdotal examples of players changing performance level doesn’t prove the existence of any particular effect.
December 31st, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Birtel
I doubt the “New York Effect” can be measured analytically. If it can, I would be shocked. The point was the quote from Piazza on the keys to success in the city. I think he outlines a great blueprint that will help a player succeed here, undoubtably a tough place to play.
The fact that a player, like O’Neill, and another, like Bonilla, had different experiences tells you it takes a unique individual to make it here.
Players often will play to the back of their card, but if you want to really be embraced, and loved, here, I think Piazza gives you a great outline. One that Bay and Granderson should take note.
December 31st, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Let’s look at the quote again. ‘If you play hard, give everything you’ve got, don’t say much and put up numbers, they’ll love you.’
(1) Is this true of New York fans more than fans elsewhere? Does this statement become true when a player moves to New York in a way it wasn’t true before?
(2) That thing about “don’t say much”, is that even right? Do New York fans really love a quiet guy like Piazza any more than outspoken guy like Keith Hernandez? I would argue that New York fans don’t care whether a guy is quiet or loud, so long as he produces and the team wins.
(3) The first two pieces of Piazza’s formula, “play hard” and give everything you’ve got” — those are the same thing right? I’m very wary of judgments about whether between two players producing identical results one is “giving his all” and the other is not. I fear that sort of judgment imports our prejudices about what a particular player is really capable of if he played his best. For example, I think there has been a tendency in the media over the years to characterize white athletes of a certain performance level as scrappy guys who give their all and black athletes of the same performance level as not fulfilling their potential. Personally, I think it’s better to focus on what we can know, which is demonstrated performance.
December 31st, 2009 at 3:19 pm
The whole white/black athlete characterization is a whole other debate. What I will say is Piazza took a great route to assimilate and endear himself to NY. Bonilla, opened his mouth and couldn’t live up to the expectations. Bonilla’s numbers weren’t bad at all, but it came down to how he handled the “fishbowl”
Whether you think its real or imagined, if you want to succeed you really need to produce and fit in. Very few, like Hernandez, can step up and be the vocal leader.
You are correct about what perceptions and reality may be, but in a town that is media and fan overload, people buy into this stuff. Its more about managing expectations, almost under-promising and over-delivering that makes NY happy.