55 Responses to Giants Rejected Yanks Offer For Matt Cain

1. R
   November 25th, 2011 at 3:34 pm

   There’s something suspicious about the fact that a relatively small blog such as this one always seems to have huge insider information no one else has… I don’t even know how much of what’s written here is true anymore.

2. Faiaz
   November 25th, 2011 at 3:41 pm

   Now THAT’S an informative article. Impressive… most impressive.

3. dan l
   November 25th, 2011 at 6:37 pm

   You’re full of crap if you believe Montero was dangled for Cain! Stop writing lies!

4. pat
   November 25th, 2011 at 7:49 pm

   Cash is too smart to sell the farm for 1 year of a guy with Cain’s flyball tendencies. Baloney.

5. David S.
   November 25th, 2011 at 7:55 pm

   dan l,

   Cashman loves Cain. If you don’t think that Cashman should include Montero in a trade that for him then your nuts.

   Here’s is the cold hard reality…..Montero is not the untradeable commodity that you and others think he is. You need a reality check man. If we could get Cain for a decent package that included Montero I would do it in a heartbeat. Hell, I would sign up for it now!

6. Ethan F
   November 25th, 2011 at 8:57 pm

   Man, I hope we do something though, I wish we could somehow snag Gio Gonzalez..

7. Ethan F
   November 25th, 2011 at 8:59 pm

   Thank you for the info, I hope it is true, because at least the front office is working for us to have great xmas present!!

8. Ethan F
   November 25th, 2011 at 9:02 pm

   but I think the Giants sure must be blind not to accept that deal from Cashman.. that deal could possible even land King Felix! Shocked to be honest!

9. Stu B
   November 25th, 2011 at 9:32 pm

   “I wish we could somehow snag Gio Gonzalez.”

   What’s with the “we,” Ethan? Do you work for the Yankees organization? If you aren’t, it’s really lame to refer to them as “we.”

   And the Giants must have had good reasons for turning the offer down. You Yankee fans can be so myopic!

10. Chuck Johnson
    November 25th, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    Montero’s the top non-pitching prospect in the organization.

    His name comes up ALL the time.

    Montero will be traded, it’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when.

    We need to use some common sense when looking at some of these trade rumors.

    The Giants have an All-Star catcher and the NL doesn’t use the DH, so they have no NEED for Montero.

11. R
    November 25th, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    Seriously this blog is built on lies, if any of it was true you’d see such info more widely spread.

12. Faiaz
    November 25th, 2011 at 10:56 pm

    Stu B,

    You live in this country and can’t even comprehend the concept of the very first amendment? Who are you to judge if it’s lame for a person to refer to things as he or she deems necessary? And myopic? Really? Nice way of you to project onto others how you feel about yourself. I would be mad at the world also if I was such an ugly and empty individual, inside. I hope you get better bud

13. Stu B
    November 26th, 2011 at 12:07 am

    Faiaz, how do you know how I feel about anything? You know nothing about me, my life, or my family. If you believe in the first amendment, why am I not entitled to my opinion? Try not to draw conclusions on that which you know nothing about.

14. Robert
    November 26th, 2011 at 12:18 am

    Why would the Giants accept a deal for prospects? They aren’t rebuilding! They are in WIN NOW mode! Prospects don’t help, but a World Series tested pitcher does!

15. roody
    November 26th, 2011 at 12:20 am

    This rumor is meaningless.
    It only suggests a list of names which was bandied about.
    Means nothing.
    Any deal for Cain would be incomplete without Cain’s signing a new deal
    and no story that doesn’t mention that isn’t a story at all.

16. David S.
    November 26th, 2011 at 1:28 am

    roody,

    It’s only logical that any deal for Cain would be contingent on the Yankees being able to sign him to a contract extension. Just because Frank didn’t mention that does not delegitimize the story. All Frank did was mention names, plain and simple, and that the Giants turned it down, which they have been doing for for all trade offers for both Cain and Lincecum.

    As for you R, you said “Seriously this blog is built on lies, if any of it was true you’d see such info more widely spread.”

    Frank, Mike Silva and Chuck Johnson all have reliable sources in the MLB when it comes to the Yankees. So apparently, according to your logic, anything you disagree with that is written on this website is a lie? You are typical of the many readers out there in the blogaspere that love to call something a lie just because they disagree with it.

    FYI….There have been a ton of trade rumors lately regarding both Cain and Lincecum, and not just from this website.

17. Steve S.
    November 26th, 2011 at 8:05 am

    Good stuff, Frank. I never cease to be amazed at the enormous gap between what Frank actually says and what some people think it means after its been filtered through their head.

    For those of you who think Frank is just making this stuff up, you’re lost. For those of us who follow this stuff closely and keep score, Frank consistently has things that come out much later in the press. His source is impeccable, very tied in to baseball matters with the Yanks.

18. Faiaz
    November 26th, 2011 at 11:46 am

    Stu B,

    You’re right, I don’t know anything about you. Neither do I want to know anything about people with your mind-frame. I guess you’re still in the process of learning about this thing called communication because nothing that I have written insinuates that you aren’t entitled to your opinion. I was just merely stating mine. And, speaking of “Try not to draw conclusions on that which you know nothing about,” maybe you should take your own advice because I am sure that you don’t know anything about the person you were quoting.

19. Stu B
    November 26th, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    Blah, blah, blah, and several butcher’s aprons…

20. Stu B
    November 26th, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    Faiaz is such a silly person.

21. Daler
    November 26th, 2011 at 7:33 pm

    I’m shocked Chuck Johnson thinks Montero will be traded!

22. dan l
    November 26th, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    There is NO chance for CAIN! He is just not that good! He pitches in the best NL ballpark for right handed pitchers. He is not a ground ball pitcher. Finally there is no way the Yankees are willing to pay him over 20 million a year!

23. Faiaz
    November 27th, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    Stu B,
    How mature of a response that was, nice job. Well, at least you accepted defeat.

24. Brien Jackson
    November 27th, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    “The package was a combination of at least one position player and several minor league pitchers. Some of the names that were bandied about were Jesus Montero, Nick Swisher, and different minor league talent that included names such as Dellin Betances, Adam Warren, David Phelps and Hector Noesi.

    The Giants, flat out turned down the deal.”

    Lord knows Brian Sabean isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer, but there’s no way this is true.

25. Brien Jackson
    November 27th, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    “For those of you who think Frank is just making this stuff up, you’re lost. For those of us who follow this stuff closely and keep score, Frank consistently has things that come out much later in the press. His source is impeccable, very tied in to baseball matters with the Yanks.”

    You know, I’ve been meaning to unload my share of the Bay Bridge before the holiday season really kicks off. Interested?

26. Mike Silva
    November 27th, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Again,

    Montero is useless to the Giants. He is consistently overrated by the Yankees blogosphere. Nick Swisher is making $10 million a year, and we don’t know what combination of the kids were discussed. I don’t believe Frank meant these talks ever got serious, but the Yanks have inquired about Cain before.

    I wouldn’t allow him to post this stuff if it weren’t true. I am pretty confident it will come out at some point in the mainstream (without proper credit).

    If we had said last offseason he made an attempt for King Felix, would you have believed it? Probably not, but Cashman did and he admitted it at the WFAN breakfast.

27. Piazza
    November 27th, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    I think people overestimate just how useless a DH like Montero is to a team that doesn’t employ the DH. Nick Swisher and one B+ prospect like Betancis doesn’t cut it for Cy candidates.

28. Brien Jackson
    November 27th, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    I’m not particularly interested in the merits of any trade offer per se, but so far as the veracity of the claim goes, the first commenter hit the nail on the head straight away; no name independent bloggers don’t get scoops on major trade offers while the beat writers for both teams have nothing. And on a couple of technical points:

    1.) If the “report” is that they “inquired” on Cain, well, of course they did. At best, the constant “my source in Tampa” stuff is an embarrassing attempt at self-aggrandizement, at worst it’s the “reporting” equivalent of cold-reading, in which a “source” tells you something that is either completely obvious or totally non-committal and unfalsifiable (Chuck’s obvious made up claim that Phelps was pitching for a 40-man spot in the AzFL or the Yankees were going to expose him to the Rule V draft is a perfect example of the latter).

    2.) Along the same lines, if you’re not reporting a formal offer or semi-serious trade talks, name dropping is amateurish sensationalism at best.

29. Mike Silva
    November 27th, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    Big difference between us and the beat writes is we can write whatever I want, when I want, and don’t have to worry about editor, team, or whatever agenda they have to manage. Mainstream has to manage agendas, we don’t. I stand by Frank’s source, the process of delivering the information is duly noted and perhaps can be positioned in a better way.

30. bill neftleberg
    November 27th, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    mike silva has consistently knocked montero, what do you expect hes a met fan and is jealous of the yankees. i personally know half the things he writes are lies

    when will yankee fans realise that you must always view mikes comments regarding yankees players and prospects as those of an extremely jealous met fan?

    i personally know Mike to be a Liar, and though he would never admit to it, he has held this bias for many years

31. bill neftleberg
    November 27th, 2011 at 2:37 pm

    Mike S. Wrote

    “Big difference between us and the beat writes is we can write whatever I want, when I want, ”

    and that there is your problem, you pretend you are a journalist with a sense of integrity, when in fact all you are is a blogger, with personal biases. When Keith law a former top scout for the Blue Jays says that Montero is among the best, if not the best hitting prospects in all of baseball, he has some credibility, you however are just like any other met fan on the street corner, except you write a blog…it makes you no more knowledgeable than Jerome from the Bronx, actually it makes you worse because he doesnt claim to have insider access

32. Stu B
    November 27th, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    @Bill Neftleberg: You don’t come across as a paragon of objectivity yourself, and have you ever heard of starting a new sentence with a capital letter and ending with a period? Seems like we need to view your comments as those of a hypersensitive and English-challenged Yankees fan.

33. Mike Silva
    November 27th, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    So Keith Law doesn’t have bias and is never wrong? Obviously, you don’t know Keith very well…

    I never said I was an authority, just one voice of many. I am an entertainer looking to bring a different perspective- there is room for all of us, it’s not an if/then scenario.

    If you did know me, you would know I have no anger towards the Yankees. I love going to Trenton and interviewing prospects. My favorite place to catch a game is Trenton, last I looked, it’s not a Mets affiliate.

    Sounds like my different POV scares you Bill

34. Mike D.
    November 27th, 2011 at 2:42 pm

    Although what Bill just said was way over the top, I disagree with you, Mike, when you said Montero is useless to the Cubs. Aramis Ramirez and Carlos Pena are both free agents, and Montero could definitely slot in at 1B for the Cubs.

    I also don’t see how you think he is overrated when he has consistently ranked in the Top 10 Prospects of the MLB. He was ranked #3 by both Baseball America and Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus in 2011. That was before he went .328 / .406 / .590 (.421 wOBA) in September for the Yankees. Obviously, that is a ridiculously small sample size, but in no way should it be detrimental to his ranking.

    Now I get the whole overrated argument, as many Yankee fans tend to be passionately protective of Montero. But I do think you are underrating him.

35. bill neftleberg
    November 27th, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    no mike, i called you what you are A LIAR, you can try and paint me any way you wish, but as i know you personally, you cant brush aside your biases. yours is another perspective, but state it as it is as a jealous Met fan, or have you not personally stated to your friends that you wish the Mets had an ownership as commited as are the yankees?

    you can lie to most of the people here since they dont know you, but you cant fool those who know you

36. Pete
    November 27th, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    Easy does it Bill. Is it really that big of a deal?!

37. bill neftleberg
    November 27th, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    pete it is when he perpetrates a deception on his readers, this is a man who routinely wore a mets cap into the studios at WGBB, he never wore a yankees cap and and off air makes fun of how ill informed yankees fans are

    i have no problem with mike giving his opinions but state them as they are as a Mets fan first and foremost

    he talks about the over rating of Montero but does he state that no Met farmhand including Harvey, Wheeler, orMejia have ever been rated as highly? has he ever said Mets bloggers over rate them?

    all i ask for is honesty in his biases

38. Mike Silva
    November 27th, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    Bill

    I have stated I wish the Mets ownership was more like the Yankees on the air… that’s not something I am hiding. Yes, I have worn a Mets jersey to WGBB, mostly a St. John’s hat, but I can’t see how that matters. Mike Francesa is a Yankees fan, Evan Roberts is a Mets fan, are they not allowed to voice their opinion? If you want to look at everything I say as “agenda-driven,” fine, so be it… I can’t help you with that.

    Also, you can tell me who you are, if you really do know me, since I won’t hold a grudge over a sports debate. It’s all fun

39. bill neftleberg
    November 27th, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    thats all i ask mike, you have to be up front with some of your biases, otherwise it takes away from your credibility

    if you look at it objectively youll realize your Montero comment really was unwarrented in the context of where it was made

40. Chuck Johnson
    November 27th, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    “Chuck’s obvious made up claim that Phelps was pitching for a 40-man spot”

    Thus the difference between “name” and “no-name”

    Just because you have no sources (which has been long established here), and therefore believe what you don’t know or understand to be “made up”

    He was in Arizona playing for a roster spot, just as Corban Joseph was.

    This is the third time you’ve come here with a backhanded reference to what I said, what I want to know is how come you haven’t linked anything to prove I’m wrong?

    Are we supposed to just take YOU at your word?

41. Chuck Johnson
    November 27th, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    Bill,

    Keith Law was never a “top” scout with the Blue Jays.

    He was a scout, yes, but his place on the totem pole was at the bottom.

    You wouldn’t know Law if he stood next to you in Starbucks, and you have no idea what he did or why he left the Jays.

    I don’t know whether you know Mike or not, but I’m guessing you know Brien..two gutless losers who use the word “liar” on the internet.

42. Frank Russo
    November 27th, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    Good to see that your back on the website bashing me Brien. I was worried that you turned soft! You should come on the show tonight, since I am going to be on after 8:30.

43. bill neftleberg
    November 27th, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    obviously chuck youre not very aware, Law grew up in Smithtown, Long Island. He graduated with honors from Harvard University, where he majored in economics. He has his MBA from Carnegie Mellon’s Tepper School of Business, one of the 10 best business schools in the world. As Special Assistant to the GM JP Ricciardi, he was a special assignment scout for the Majors and minors. he wasnt a low level scout at all, in fact he held the same role for Ricciardi that Paul Depodesta holds for Sandy Alderson, incidently Depodesta recommended Law to Ricciardi, so unless youre saying Depodesta is a minor scout for the Mets, well then your dead wrong.

    perhaps if you knew anything of which you speak chuck you wouldnt sound so foolish, if youll notice Mike to his credit admitted most 0f what i said, i was only reporting what i saw with my own eyes at WGBB where i used to work as a summer intern while going to Hofstra

    I just felt that mike was unfairly criticizing Montero when by all accounts, he’s rated better than any Mets prospect since Paul Wilson. When scouts compare Montero to the young Miguel Cabrera, and they do regularly, then obviously its not just Yankee fan hype

    l

44. bill neftleberg
    November 27th, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    just to back up my previous comments here are some quotes

    “In terms of hitting ability, Montero can be a Manny Ramirez or a Miguel Cabrera,” Brian Cashman told ESPN New York’s Ian O’Connor.

    Brian Cartwright a senior Sabre member and pirate fan: “I am sure Montero will rake. My high numbers put him in company with Miguel Cabrera or Carlos Delgado in their early 20’s. He is on everyone’s top 5 list. As a Pirate fan, I am disappointed by the peak projections for guys like Alvarez or McCutchen, so not everyone projects high.”

    Zachary Finkelstein SNY: “Many baseball scouts believe the Yankees’ Jesus Montero could one day resemble Manny Ramirez and Miguel Cabrera in the batter’s box. The 21-year-old did nothing to discredit those comparisons after hitting .328/.406/.590 in 69 September plate appearances”

    so as you can see its not just Yankee fans who have high expectations for Jesus, and he is not merely a product of yankee hype

    l

45. Stu B
    November 27th, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    It remains to be seen if Montero, like Joba, is merely a product of Yankee hype.

46. Mike Silva
    November 27th, 2011 at 6:48 pm

    Couple of things in response to Bill

    1. I know the story of Law. Yes, he has a fancy education, and I give him credit for going out, on his on dime, and scouting the entire Jays farm system. He sold himself to J.P. Ricciardi at the Winter Meetings in I believe 2001. That is the ultimate set of balls when you go out and sell yourself to one of the 30 big league GMs.

    What got Law was his hubris. He thought he was smarter and better than he was. He has said so himself publically, especially during the whole “Moneyball” scout scenario. He also got involved in front office politics and went behind J.P.’s back. That got him fired and eventually blackballed from MLB. He will never get a job again in the game because of the lack of trust, unless, of course, DePodesta comes to his rescue. We shall see…

    With that said, Law has tons of bias. I know people who have dealt with him in Trenton and he only likes designer top prospects. He only seems to praise the cream of the crop. Remember David Freese? Law was dumping on him in a chat a couple of years ago. I know Joe Delgrippo is out of town, but I hope he pops into this thread and gives his two cents on KLaw.

    2) As for Montero, I admittedly only saw him play once (2009 EL All Star Game), and I wrote he reminded me of Mike Piazza in terms of build and mannerisms. He is young, but before we anoint him to be Cabrera or Delgado lets seem him hit like them at any level for a full season. To date, he has not.

    The fact remains he hit LHP at Triple-A last year, failed to win a job out of spring training, and did most of his big league damage against the woeful Baltimore Orioles. A majority of his production came in 3 games.

    By the way…. Cabrera was already hitting 33 HRs when he was 21, the same age as Montero. Delgado had 25 HRs and 100 RBI in Triple-A w/ Toronto. If he didn’t change positions he probably would have stuck in the big leagues the first time around.

    Tools are fine, but lets see results. By all accounts Montero has some maturing to do.

    As for those platitudes. Cashman is going to sell his prospect, and the other two’s opinion are no better than mine. Give me a Jed Weisberger or Chuck Johnson over these guys. Most of the Goldstein’s and BPro guys look at stats and rarely watch most of these kids play. Not sure I can take their opinion as seriously as those that have spent time around the game.

47. Chuck Johnson
    November 27th, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    Congratulations, Bill, not only were you able to find Law’s Wiki page, but it appears you could read it.

    Law was hired by Ricciardi at the Winter Meetings and given a cushy job in the front office.

    A job, as it turned out, he wasn’t qualified to have.

    So, the Jays demoted him.

    There’s a lot more to the story, but I’m not going there.

    Suffice it to say, he was fired because he was an incompetent tool.

48. Chuck Johnson
    November 27th, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    In the AFL’s first season in ’92, the Dodgers sent Mike Piazza to have him learn either first base or right field.

    He was really bad in right and not much better at first.

    Piazza’s a better athlete than Montero.

    If the Yanks thought for ONE SECOND Montero could play ANY other position, don’t you think he already would be?

    Are some teams willing to pay for his bat?

    Absolutely, no question.

    The Mariners backed out of the Lee deal because they liked Justin Smoak better.

    Doesn’t that kind of give you a glimmer of what other teams REALLY think about him?

    Like Mike said, take out the two homer game against Baltimore and his back to back three hit games against Tampa and Boston, and he’s a .137 hitter with more whiffs than hits.

    He repeated AAA.

    He regressed.

    He went from the third best prospect in all of baseball to the fifth ranked prospect in the International League.

    Face facts, people, his stock is falling.

    And no one knows it more than Cashman, regardless of what he tells some knucklehead looking for a quote.

49. bill neftleberg
    November 27th, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    mike Jed i’ll agree with you on

    but chuck Johnson? i wouldnt take his advice on a prospect if my life depended on it

    his scouting acumen is on a par with Ron Herbel’s hitting

    in fact Chuck makes Herbel look like Albert Pujols by comparison for my money ill take Tom Greenwade and Roger Jongewaard

    to chuck the 20-80 scale is the ratio of beans he eats to how often he farts

50. bill neftleberg
    November 27th, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    mike, i was an intern at wgbb under muriel horenstein in the early 80′s it was WBAB-am then but i still pop into the station from time to time, i happened to be in the offices a couple of times when you were recording shows

    calling you a liar was in reference to you not being honest about your met bias, you may not think you have it but you do, not as bad as others but you do

51. Brien Jackson
    November 27th, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    So Chuck doesn’t know what “non-falsifiable” means. Well, can’t say I’m surprised.

52. Chuck Johnson
    November 27th, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    “i wouldnt take his advice on a prospect if my life depended on it”

    At least I didn’t compare a 22 year old college pitcher with 26 career professional games to a 22 year old hitter with 507 career games.

    On live radio.

    Try this Billy….Mike Stanton is three WEEKS older than Montero.

    Have a good night.

53. bill neftleberg
    November 27th, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    yes chuck and the Marlins are a team with world series aspirations too right chuck? if the Yankees were in the marlins shoes you might have seen Montero start the year in ny too

    typical that you dont even know the most basic of baseball tenets

    ever hear of letting a guy get regular at bats rather than sit on the bench ? give it up chuck

54. Stu B
    November 27th, 2011 at 9:58 pm

    I doubt we’ll see the Marlins or the Yankees in the 2012 World Series.

55. Chuck Johnson
    November 27th, 2011 at 10:05 pm

    OK, Bill.

    Thanks for stopping by.

Leave a Reply