38 Responses to Yanks Have a Few Starting Pitching Options

1. Michael Maggi
   November 26th, 2011 at 5:00 pm

   Ok Frank, gun to your head, besides Garcia and Sabathia, which additional starting pitcher(s) do the Yanks acquire to add to the rotation?

2. Mike Silva
   November 26th, 2011 at 5:05 pm

   I will jump in, and I am sure Frank will pop on sometime tonight, but it’s starting to sound like the most realistic option might be C.J. Wilson. I hate it, especially if it’s more than 3 years, but he is less of a risk than Darvish and won’t cost the expensive haul of a Cain, Gonzalez, etc.

3. Michael Maggi
   November 26th, 2011 at 5:13 pm

   Mike,

   I’m getting that feeling as well. Although I would not put it past Jerry DiPoto to give him 5-6 years. In which case, I don’t see Cashman going that long with Wilson. I could, however, see John Danks being a realistic option and perhaps just waiting out Darvish.

4. Mike Silva
   November 26th, 2011 at 5:15 pm

   When it comes to any young pitcher, unless the team HAS to move them, they will demand one of the Yanks top pitchers (Killer B’s). The Yanks haven’t made a deal since Dec of 2009, there is a reason for that and its the expensive demands of opposing general manager.

5. Chuck Johnson
   November 26th, 2011 at 5:22 pm

   Sabathia
   Nova
   Burnett
   Hughes

   There’s a lot of teams out there who would kill to have that group as their top four.

   I don’t get this mind-set that the Yanks have to blow a hundred million on a pitcher they really don’t need.

   Between Garcia, Warren, Banuelos and Betances the Yanks have a number of options for the #5 spot, they don’t need Darvish or Wilson, or an injury prone guy like Jurrjens.

   I’d like to see the Yanks see if they can find someone to take Swisher off their hands and make a run at Beltran, but other than that, if the season started tomorrow I wouldn’t have any major concerns with the current roster.

6. Mike Silva
   November 26th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

   Chuck, you are exactly correct.

   I am comfortable with the roster as is- bring in some low value signings and go after it… the problem is the Yankees don’t like to see other teams make moves and they are on the outside looking in.

7. Steve S.
   November 26th, 2011 at 6:28 pm

   Off their hands? I don’t get that at all. Swisher lead the team in OBP last year, plays his position adequately and gives them a switch hitter with pop. He’s not perfect, but you could do a lot worse. Beltran is better when healthy, but I don’t trust a guy with bad knees to stay on the field everyday. At least you know Swisher plays everyday.

8. Frank Russo
   November 26th, 2011 at 8:17 pm

   Chuck and Mike,

   Cashman has already stated publically several times that Warren, Banuelos and Betances are not ready due to innings limitations at the minor league level. and are not options for the rotation at the moment. So do we believe Cashman when he says that or is he just blowing smoke to the press when he says they are not ready?

   I was told that despite the re-signing of Garcia, Hal Steinbrenner is stil not comfortable with the rotation he way it is constituted.

   As for Swisher being moved, they have no one to replace him right now should he get traded, so unless or until they sign someone else to replace him, Swisher is staying.

9. Ethan
   November 26th, 2011 at 8:51 pm

   I wonder if they would favor signing Wilson and trading for Gio Gonzalez and having Hughes come off the bullpen..imagine that knockout punch..Hughes..Robertson..Joba…Soriano..Feliciano…Rivera..

10. Saket
    November 26th, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    Warren pitched 156 innings last year and 130+ the year before. His innings limit should probably be high enough to allow him to be the 5th starter if necessary (170 innings or so).

11. Chuck Johnson
    November 26th, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    “Cashman has already stated publically several times that Warren, Banuelos and Betances are not ready due to innings limitations at the minor league level.”

    They would be if they weren’t on pitch counts.

    Pitch counts are for Little Leaguers.

12. Frank Russo
    November 26th, 2011 at 11:38 pm

    Chuck,

    I think we both agree that the Yankees baby their pitchers probably more than any team in baseball. Unless that changes, and it probably won’t, then you will continue to see the same thing for the foreseeable future.

    Also, Saket, You made a good point, but, Cashman has already said that Warren is not ready to be considered for the rotation, at least not at the start of the season. I could see him maybe being called up late in the season, maybe in August, if he has accrued enough innings, but as of now, he does not have enough, at least not enough in Cashman’s eyes.

13. Brien Jackson
    November 27th, 2011 at 9:41 am

    “They would be if they weren’t on pitch counts.

    Pitch counts are for Little Leaguers.”

    Are you really going to make me call you out for lying again?

14. Chuck Johnson
    November 27th, 2011 at 11:06 am

    “lying again?”

    Really, tough guy?

15. Brien Jackson
    November 27th, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Yes, lying. The first time we went over this you could be excused for just being ignorant, but now that you’re still repeating it it qualifies as dishonesty.

    Oh yeah, any word on where Phelps is landing in the Rule V?

16. David, Jr.
    November 27th, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    Brien – Just go away. Nobody cares what you say about anything. An opinion that is different than yours isn’t “lying”. Many people feel that the Yankees are quite cautious with their young pitchers. So what?

    Chuck – Keep posting your opinions. They are excellent. For example, re Montero, I have an excellent source that is a Minnesota writer that is quite close to the Twins. He says that the Twins like Montero a lot as a hitter (somewhat different than your opinion, which isn’t a big deal), but agrees exactly with what you say in another regard, namely that he has no position other than DH.

17. Brien Jackson
    November 27th, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    Well that’s well and good David, but the problem is it’s wrong. Pitch counts or not, there’s simply no case to be made that the innings counts of Banuelos, Betances, and Warren are behind what they should be *once you account for* the fact that Banuelos and Betances lost some time to injuries and Warren has only been in the system for two full seasons. I posted the full breakdown on an earlier post, but suffice it to say that, pitch counts or not, there’s nothing hurting the Yankees’ minor league pitchers’ ability to accrue innings when they’re healthy.

18. Daler
    November 27th, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    Who takes a troll like Chuck seriously? The guy is a total loon

19. Chuck Johnson
    November 27th, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    Hey dumbass..

    Look at the left hand side of the page, under “Digest Contributors”

    When I see your name there, then, and only then, will you be qualified to call anyone a troll.

    Either that, or post a link to YOUR site so we can see what you really know.

    I won’t be holding my breath.

20. Brien Jackson
    November 27th, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    Chuck’s not a troll, per se. He’s just a goofy contrarian throwing a bunch of crap at the wall hoping that one of his goofy pronouncements comes true so that he can claim to be smarter than everyone/have honest to God inside information.

21. Chuck Johnson
    November 27th, 2011 at 9:05 pm

    LOL

    After the week you had Brien, I’m surprised to see you back so soon.

    You’re contradicting drunken rant on Mike’s show last week.

    The 3000 word definition of stupid you posted on your site regarding the the new CBA, and, the coup de grace, your pissing contest on Twitter with actual members of the MLBPA telling them they agreed to a bad deal.

    You’re an idiot, Brien.

    And a lot more people know it now than a week ago.

    What a clown.

22. Brien Jackson
    November 27th, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    Chuck, what are you talking about? I never said the players got a bad deal, the current players got a great deal. I said they sold out future players, which they did.

    Also too, I enjoy that you feel my opinion on the CBA is “stupid,” as it pretty much only reinforces my point that you’re a forced contrarian desperately trying to prove you’re smarter than everyone else.

23. Chuck Johnson
    November 27th, 2011 at 11:05 pm

    “you’re a forced contrarian desperately trying to prove you’re smarter than everyone else.”

    And yet here you are, proving I’m smarter than you.

    What did LaTroy Hawkins say to you the other day?

    Something about “hiding behind your laptop?”

    Before this deal is over, the ML minimum salary will be over $500,000 per.

    There are players making eight figure salaries per season.

    And yet I have a number of friends who had to go to the Supreme Court to get a lousy ten grand payout from the pension fund because NOT ONE MOTHERBLEEPIN’ negotiation since 1987 would even DISCUSS pension fund payments or re-structuring for former players.

    So, you condescending bleephole, don’t you DARE talk to me about who is or isn’t a sell-out.

24. Mike Silva
    November 27th, 2011 at 11:10 pm

    Bad job by me not bringing up the pension guys – I did a show on that a while back

25. Stu B
    November 27th, 2011 at 11:24 pm

    Another round of Chuck vs Brien – love it!

26. Brien Jackson
    November 27th, 2011 at 11:44 pm

    “Something about “hiding behind your laptop?”

    Seriously, we’re going to go here? What are you, superior because you use a desktop?

    “And yet I have a number of friends who had to go to the Supreme Court to get a lousy ten grand payout from the pension fund because NOT ONE MOTHERBLEEPIN’ negotiation since 1987 would even DISCUSS pension fund payments or re-structuring for former players.

    So, you condescending bleephole, don’t you DARE talk to me about who is or isn’t a sell-out.”

    Word to the wise; you do not want to even attempt to put your pro-labor bona fides up against mine. And to that end, yes, the MLBPA sold out for the benefit of their current members at the expense of their future members and fellow laborers. The current union members got their bonuses, and now they want more money in MLBPA deals at the expense of amateur players. That’s a good deal for them, to be sure, but it’s a bad deal for baseball, which will lose talent, and it’s a bad deal for the players in general, as it’s only a matter of time before the new generation of union members, raised on a player vs. player mentality, agrees to a salary cap.

27. Chuck Johnson
    November 27th, 2011 at 11:51 pm

    Stu,

    For some reason you think we’re entertainment for you?

    Go back and listen to the podcast of the show last week and Brien’s uneducated discussion of the draft and pre-draft deals.

    Then read this nonsense.

    http://itsaboutthemoney.net/archives/2011/11/22/the-new-cba-is-terrible/

    Then go to his Twitter account (@BrienJackson) and read through his arguments with guys like LaTroy Hawkins about how bad the CBA is.

    The guy’s got less credibility than Jerry Sandusky.

    I don’t mind when someone disagrees with me, but at least offer a counter-argument.

    He’s said nothing.

    No one reads his piece of crap site, so he has to go around pissing on everyone else’s just to get attention.

    We don’t have a debate, Stu. We don’t have “rounds”.

    I say something, he says, “Chuck, blah, blah, Chuck blah, blah” then disappears.

    Oh, yeah, almost forgot; “Chuck’s a liar”

    He’s a gutless punk.

28. Chuck Johnson
    November 28th, 2011 at 12:03 am

    “Word to the wise; you do not want to even attempt to put your pro-labor bona fides up against mine.”

    No, butthole, don’t attempt to bring whatever soapbox your standing on to this discussion.

    You’re a nobody, do you understand?

    You don’t know squat.

    Amateur players have no rights, so why should the union care about them?

    It’s an earned right, not a given right.

    If little Johnny Appleseed down the street wants to go law school because the White Sox won’t go over slot on a tenth round pick, then see ya.

    Teams can still pay the top picks, they just won’t be giving big money deals to lower round picks, who shouldn’t be getting them anyway.

    There’s over 1500 players drafted every year, not including the International signings.

    If an extra 100 kids go to school every year, there STILL will be 1500 players drafted, and the kids who end up in school wouldn’t have been major leaguers anyway.

    So this loss of talent angle is bullcrap.

    As big of an ass as you look now, when the deal is ratified and published fully, you’re going to need Witness Protection.

    You ran your mouth without knowing the full scope of the deal.

    Moron.

29. Brien Jackson
    November 28th, 2011 at 12:03 am

    What is this “disappearing” you speak of?

    As for the CBA, I’m a volunteer for the SEIU and an unabashed labor-liberal, so I will have none of my pro-union credentials being besmirched. That said, the new CBA represents an example of the MLBPA acting with the worth tendencies of a monopolistic union towards maximizing current member compensation at the expense of future members and the overall interests of the industry. That’s a simple fact, and you won’t find many examples of credible people disagreeing with that take.

30. Brien Jackson
    November 28th, 2011 at 12:20 am

    “You’re a nobody, do you understand?

    You don’t know squat. ”

    Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

    “Amateur players have no rights, so why should the union care about them?”

    Well, I should rest my case right there, but:

    “Teams can still pay the top picks, they just won’t be giving big money deals to lower round picks, who shouldn’t be getting them anyway.”

    Off the top of my head, Dellin Betances was an 8th round pick, Matt Moore was an 8th round pick, Austin Jackson was an 8th round pick, John Smoltz was a 22nd round pick, Albert Pujols was a 13th round pick…

    The MLB draft is not like the NFL draft. You’re not drafting players to come in and contribute in the short term. With the exception of maybe half a dozen players a year, every one drafted is a project, and outside the top 10-15 picks, everyone is being selected on tools or projected. The current players got theirs from the process, and now the replacement or near replacement level members of their ranks want to claw back money from the next generation of draft picks. That’s a rational action from them in the short term, and in the long term really, since they have no formal stake in the labor market past their own careers, which benefit from this agreement.

    I happen to think that’s a bad thing for the game, since the next Matt Moore will likely go to a top tier college program to have his arm abused to hell and back by a coach that wants a CWS victory, and thus will likely never make it to the big league level at all, much less make the thrilling start Moore made in Game 1 of this year’s ALDS. If you disagree, I humbly submit you actually bother to write as much (although by this point, it’s really about time for at least one of the thirty-two MLB franchises to be attempting to retain your services as a scout, isn’t it?)

    But don’t you *dare* question my pro union credentials, you washed up run-out troglodyte hack.

31. Chuck Johnson
    November 28th, 2011 at 1:05 am

    “But don’t you *dare* question my pro union credentials”

    I could care less about your perceived credentials.

    They’re as worthless as you are.

32. Mike Silva
    November 28th, 2011 at 6:25 am

    Brien

    Devils Advocate – if you were a union member that paid $1,800 per month for representation, what would you prefer Weiner to focus on?

    The top players will still get their money, its some of the middle round guys that will get squeezed.

    Going back to school to play baseball isn’t the worst thing in the world either.

33. Stu B
    November 28th, 2011 at 9:00 am

    Sorry Chuck, but to this unbiased third party, you guys have rounds, and I find it very entertaining. But don’t take that personally – it’s the dynamics of the “dance,” if you will, that makes it fun to watch.

34. Stu B
    November 28th, 2011 at 9:01 am

    And I don’t ascribe any credibility to Brien’s stuff.

35. Brien Jackson
    November 28th, 2011 at 9:41 am

    “if you were a union member that paid $1,800 per month for representation, what would you prefer Weiner to focus on? ”

    Well, like I said, it’s a great deal for current big leaguers, who are essentially double dipping (they aren’t paying their over-slot money back, of course). But I think it’s being a bit disingenuous to say they simply got an offer they couldn’t refuse. There’s ample evidence that at least some element of the union actively wanted to impose earnings caps on draft picks, on the (mistaken) belief that the money would be transferred to them. That’s a) morally despicable and b) quite troubling for what it says about the future of the MLBPA. Once a monopolistic union accepts a posture in which members willfully seek gains at the expense of one another, the game is basically over. Management will continue to divide the union and weaken players’ stomach for a fight, and can thus expect steady gains over the next few agreements.

    In other words, the MLBPA is well on its way to becoming just like the rotting corpse of the NFLPA.

    “Going back to school to play baseball isn’t the worst thing in the world either.”

    For whom? In this world, the best pitching prospect in baseball probably would have gone to college rather than winding up with one of the best organizations at developing pitchers in the game. Maybe he blossoms in college and ends up going at the top of the draft later, or maybe his college coach blows out his arm trying to squeeze every win (and every dollar on his next contract with the school) that he can. It’s simply not in anyone’s interest to push talented players out of the minor leagues and into NCAA ball. The only thing that accomplishes is cutting labor costs around the margins and making the owners a little bit more money.

36. Chuck Johnson
    November 28th, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    “In this world, the best pitching prospect in baseball probably would have gone to college rather than winding up with one of the best organizations at developing pitchers in the game”

    He wasn’t the best pitching prospect at the time of the draft, otherwise he wouldn’t have gone in the eighth round.

    Dewon Brazleton, Matt White and Wade Townsend are also products of “one of the best organizations at developing pitchers in the game”.

    It’s a load of BS that a team like the Pirates can’t win. The way this new deal is “supposed” to work is cut down on wasteful spending (sorry, a 900% overslot bonus for an 8th rounder is wasteful spending) and put the savings back into the organization.

    The Pirates recently declined a $3 million option on SS Ronny Cedeno and signed Clint Barmes for $5.5 million.

    That’s an admittedly insignificant example of what the end result should be, but the ten or so extra million should be spent on a major league free agent who can help the team as opposed to being spent on an amateur with a 34% chance of never playing in the majors.

    In 2009, the Pirates received a total of$78 million dollars from MLB through 2008 merchandise sale and their share of the revenue tax.

    Their payroll for the entire year was $48.6 million.

    So, they profited $29.2 million before they ever sold a ticket, a hot dog, collected a parking fee, collected on broadcast or advertising rights…….

    So, where’s the money?

    It’s in shopping mall in Dubai.

    If playing for his hometown team was so important, Dellin Betances would have signed for a plane ticket to Tampa.

    If money was more important than baseball, then go play power forward at St. Johns, there’s a kid behind you in line that would love to spend his winter in a warm weather city.

37. Chuck Johnson
    November 28th, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    Just curious, Stu.

38. Stu Baron
    November 28th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    I understand, but I find all the drama entertaining!

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