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Time For Warthen to Show Results


By Mike Silva ~ April 7th, 2011. Filed under: Mike Silva, New York Mets.

It’s way too early to have an extreme reaction to anything going on in the field. There is reason to start to evaluate the early signs that could be trends throughout the season. One such evaluation is Mets pitching coach Dan Warthen.

I don’t know Warthen personally, nor have I talked to him, but to say I am skeptical about his performance is an understatement. The players I have spoken to love Dan, and swear by him, but liking a coach doesn’t mean he is effective.

When Warthen took over for Rick Peterson in June of 2008 it was a time the organization was rift with backstabbing, namely led by Tony Bernazard, who was more interested in aligning people that will increase his power base instead of fielding a competent staff. Peterson became a casualty of that scenario, and it was positioned by Omar Minaya as change for change sake.

Under Peterson the Mets saw numerous arms come to life. John Maine, Oliver Perez, Darren Oliver, Chad Bradford, Jae Seo, Aaron Heilman, and Jorge Sosa, to name a few, either had career years, or reestablished themselves. Peterson recently talked on WFAN about how his program practiced at 3p Sports was instrumental in helping Oliver Perez become a 15 game winner in 2007.

The Mets staff hasn’t done poorly since Warthen took over, but he doesn’t seem to do more with less like Peterson. If you need a perfect example take a look at the 2004 Mets staff and tell me how that collection could finish in the top half of the league in ERA.

Mike Pelfrey was clobbered last night in Philadelphia. He believes it was due to pitch selection. It was obvious he kept the ball up in the strike zone, a known recipe for disaster. There is also the mental side of the game, which Pelfrey admittedly always battles. Perhaps the death of Harvey Dorfman, his sports psychologist, plays a part in this early season struggle. Losing a mentor like that is always troublesome for someone that appears as fragile as Pelfrey.

Whatever the case it’s up to Dan Warthen to fix him. Warthen is quick to make sarcastic remarks about Pedro Feliciano‘s over usage, but I don’t find that funny, or what he and Jerry Manuel did to Fernando Nieve last April when they pitched him in 14 games and warmed him up nightly. He acts like he was an innocent bystander in the process.

There are other blemishes on Warthen’s resume like the Jenrry Mejia bullpen experiment, which he derides now, but I don’t remember him having a problem with it last year. He then goes on to say this spring that Mejia might be better suited to relief when the organization still views him as a starter. Not the best way to build value in the event you want to deal him.

The Mets pitching staff won’t make anyone forget the ’69, ’86 or even 2000 editions, but it’s not a bad collection. How Dan Warthen maximized their potential will come into play. Right now, he is clearly losing Mike Pelfrey who looks about as lost as ever. Name me one pitcher that as excelled under Warthen because of his tutelage. R.A. Dickey doesn’t count because he is self made. I can’t see to come up with one name. Not to mention the team has been in the top half of the league in walks the last two seasons.

I would have moved on from Dan Warthen this winter. The Mets pitchers swear by him, and I guess that’s all that matters. Now it’s time to take that testimony and see results. Mike Pelfrey‘s first two times in the rotation isn’t the greatest way to start.

Time for Dan Warthen to show everyone results that match the accolades given to him by the pitching staff.

Mike Silva is a freelance writer and radio host since March of 2007. This website is his own personal "digest" of New York Baseball He's also hosts NYBD Radio on Blog Talk Radio and 1240 AM WGBB. Check out his sports media commentary at www.sportsmediawatchdog.com. Check out his official website, www.mikesilvamedia.com
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9 Responses to Time For Warthen to Show Results

  1. Ceetar
    April 7th, 2011 at 8:54 am

    I wish they’d ditched Warthen, I don’t think he adds anything.

  2. Ed
    April 7th, 2011 at 9:07 am

    I agree with you Mike but I’m not sure if I’m agreeing with you because I’m not a Warthen fan or because I’m a big Peterson fan. I know there are a lot of fans that were down on Peterson because of the Kazmir trade but history has told us that Peterson was right, as you mentioned recently. History also tells us that Ollie and Maine were better pitchers during Peterson’s term. In fact both pitchers went from pretty good to awful almost overnight after Peterson was fired.

    To be fair to Warthen, the Mets starting rotation was pretty good last year considering that was supposed to be their week ness. In addition, the bullpen was abused the last several years but I don’t believe Warthen should be blamed and that Manual was the one calling the shots.

    I agree that Warthen needs to show positive results this year, but if Pelfrey continues to struggle and the rest of the staff is inadequate then the Mets need to make another change.

    Ed

  3. 86mets
    April 7th, 2011 at 10:01 am

    Mike, I have one more example of why Warthen probably should go. I recall back in the summer of ’09 when Johan Santana developed elbow pain that eventually led to surgery. It was reported that right around the All Star break Santana altered his between start routine due to the elbow issue. When asked about it Warthen claimed not to know that Santana had altered his schedule. As a pitching coach for a Major League team, how do you NOT know when something is wrong or something changes with one of your pitchers? Worse yet, when that pitcher just happens to be your BEST pitcher. How did he NOT know??? I wondered that when I read that. He has 12 pitchers to keep track of on a daily basis so it should not be hard to stay on top their routines and any problems they may have. Of course, I’m not a pitching coach and never have been so maybe I’m missing something or am just ignorant. But to not know your ace has changed his routine, for whatever reason, seems unacceptable to me.

  4. Dano
    April 7th, 2011 at 11:19 am

    Amen. Who has Warthen really helped? Right before Peterson got fired, Pelfey had already started to pitch better. Ollie and Maine got worse under him. And the staff pitching stats over the last two years are worse than they appear due to Citi Field. Look at the road splits and they are awful. Then there are the tactless statements he makes about players such as Maine and Feliciano. Even if they are true, no need to be so publicly insulting to the players.

    Pelfrey seems to be Warthen’s biggest supporter but if he can’t improve and seems to get worse, then no reason to keep Warthen around.

  5. Stu B
    April 7th, 2011 at 11:55 am

    About all you can say for Warthen is that Niese and Young didn’t suck in each of their first starts…

  6. RonOK
    April 7th, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    Mike, I agree 100% with your comments.

    I am actually hoping that the organization gets smart and brings Peterson back …. new regime may value his approach.

    On Pelfrey, I really wish the Mets could move on from him …. he just looks like a deer lost in the headlights …. frankly, it’s insane for anyone to consider him a #1 …. I realize that he was annointed that as a result of Johan’s injury, but he is not even a solid #2.

    Once this organization stabalizes after all the financial issues, Pelfrey needs to go …. he will be a free agent after 2012 (I believe) and with Boras as his agent, the Mets should hope for him to turn it around now and look to deal him this year.

    Let’s face it, every time he takes the mound, we are not sure if we are going to get the “Good Pelf” or the “Bad Pelf” …. and it’s almost impossible to ask him to win a road game within the division.

  7. Jay
    April 7th, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    In a nutshell I’m not prepared to forget about the overall success of the pitching staff in 2010 under Warthen based on Mike Pelfrey’s awful performance thus far in 2011.

    Alderson changed some employees while maintaining others at all levels of the organization in what is widely acknowledged, while remaining unspoken, as a year of transition.

    If the 2011 pitching staff which has a nice mix of mediocre pitchers, pitchers with upside but who haven’t shown it yet, and pitchers who have had MLB success but are coming off injury doesn’t show well Alderson and company will have had a full season to evaluate the pitching in the organization and be well prepared to seek the best pitching coach to guide the staff going forward.

  8. Kevin
    April 8th, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    Thanks for writing this. I haven’t been able to understand why Warthen wasn’t swept out with the rest of the staff, unless management thought it was cheaper to keep him. Yes, the pitchers were generally good last year, but in 2009, the staff had the 3rd worst ERA in team history. Many give him credit for 2010, but forget how awful they were in ’09. Even accounting for injuries, that staff shouldn’t have been so bad.

  9. Sparks
    April 8th, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    I’ve got a “name one” game, too. Name one season from 2004-2007 in which the Mets had a lower team ERA than in 2010. There wasn’t one.

    Rick Peterson is the Bobby Valentine of pitching coaches in that fans love to remember the playoff appearances (singular in Peterson’s case) while forgetting their lackluster surroundings. Sure, Peterson got a little mileage out of Perez and Maine, but he also presided over the pitching collapse largely responsible for the overall collapse in 2007 and didn’t improve much upon it before being let go in 2008. At the same time Peterson was milking Ollie Perez through a decent season, Tom Glavine was rolling his eyes at him.

    “Whom has Warthen elevated?” is a legitimate question, but if you ask, “Who has left Warthen’s guidance and gone on to excel elsewhere?” the list will be just as short.

    People didn’t like Warthen’s words about Maine last season, but he was just calling a spade a spade. So what if John Maine’s feelings were hurt? John Maine didn’t even make it out of camp with the Rockies this Spring. If you want to hold hands and sing campfire songs, watch Barney on Nickelodeon. If you want a winning baseball team, somebody’s got to be willing to be the bad guy. That’s not to say Warthen is a fantastic pitching coach, but his straight-shooting approach is something this team needs more of, not less.

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