35 Responses to Jeff Francoeur Does Not Suck

1. Sam Page
   September 20th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

   Since you brought it up (for whatever reason), Lastings Milledge is outperforming Jeff Francoeur this season according to almost every holistic measure of player performance known to man, not that you would listen to any of the stats I would cite.

   Also, keep fighting that strawman. No one hates Francoeur personally, they hate bad baseball players and losing.

2. John Timmel
   September 20th, 2009 at 1:03 pm

   Eh, what are you talking about Sam?

   Jeff is ahead of Lastings in average, home runs, rbi, and slugging just to name a few “holistic” measures.

   Avg. HR RBI OBP Slug%
   Lastings .278 2 16 .327 .356
   Jeff .280 12 69 .309 .416

   Which player is out playing the other? Clearly it is Jeff!

3. Spike
   September 20th, 2009 at 3:19 pm

   Francoeur has been playing professional baseball since 2002. -The overwhelming amount of data points in those 7 seasons indicate he is an impatient batsman who has not adjusted an iota from Day One.
   - The moment he encountered adversity in his MLB career he revealed himself to be a pouty prima donna who doesn’t take criticism well. He sought help from another team’s batting coach without bothering to notify his own. He was offered the same multiyear contract as McCann, who actually is good, but declined (thanks, Jeff!). Spare me the “embodies all that is good with professional baseball” mythology.
   - His defense has declined over the past few seasons as well, giving the lie to the “improving himsefl” mantra.
   - His OPS+ for 2006-2007 is 87 and 103. Yes, I would be disappointed with that from a 5M/3 yr contract.
   - Jeff has never sustained a high BABIP – perhaps you would care to explain why this ISN”T an anomaly?

   If his last 250ABs have convinced you otherwise, fine – but please, his track record to date is that of a 4th/5th OF, and extreme skepticism about his long term future is not only prudent, but fiduciarily responsible. Just admit you’re trying to draw to an inside straight instead of trying to convince anyone there is some viable statistical argument supporting a long term contract offer.

4. Omar
   September 20th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

   Wait so you **** on Reyes and Wright and laud Fraudcour?
   You sir know **** about baseball.

5. Matt F.
   September 20th, 2009 at 3:41 pm

   He needs to get his strikeout rate down to 15% and he’ll be a decent #6 hitter. If it remains at 20% with a walk rate at 5%, while making outs 70% of the time, then every met fan is going to be bitching within a year.

6. RonOK
   September 20th, 2009 at 4:29 pm

   With so mmany holes to fill, Francoeur is more than adequate as the everyday right-fielder. Once the off-season gets here and we see just how unwilling the Mets ownership will be to spend money on free agent “difference-makers” (i.e., Halladay, Lackey, Holliday, etc.) will we all see just how much locking Francoeur up for a few years (at a resonable rate) will be.

   Let’s see, Francoeur in RF or a platoon of Karim Garcia and Shane Spencer?

7. Sam Page
   September 20th, 2009 at 4:41 pm

   @John learn about defense.

8. Spike
   September 20th, 2009 at 4:46 pm

   You know, he has been in the top ten every full season in one category…

   Outs Made
   2006 NL–507–3rd
   2007 NL–477–10th
   2008 NL–479–6th
   2009 NL–419–9th

9. Chris Silva
   September 20th, 2009 at 6:46 pm

   Hey Matt,

   If you haven’t noticed even the best hitters of all time make outs 70% of the time. Not sure we’re your going with that.

10. Chuck
    September 20th, 2009 at 7:35 pm

    “If you haven’t noticed even the best hitters of all time make outs 70% of the time.”

    The best hitters most certainly do NOT make outs 70% of the time. A .300 OBP is poor for any position, especially a corner outfielder.

11. Jason
    September 20th, 2009 at 8:06 pm

    “If you haven’t noticed even the best hitters of all time make outs 70% of the time.”

    Jesus Christ, people actually let you write for a baseball website?

    Here are the out rates (aka on-base percentages) for some of the best hitters ever:

    1. Ted Williams+ .4817 L
    2. Babe Ruth+ .4740 L
    3. John McGraw+ .4657 L
    4. Billy Hamilton+ .4552 L
    5. Lou Gehrig+ .4474 L
    6. Barry Bonds .4443 L
    7. Bill Joyce .4349 L
    8. Rogers Hornsby+ .4337 R
    9. Ty Cobb+ .4330 L
    10. Jimmie Foxx+ .4283 R
    11. Tris Speaker+ .4280 L
    12. Albert Pujols (29) .4273 R
    13. Todd Helton (35) .4268 L
    14. Eddie Collins+ .4244 L
    15. Ferris Fain .4241 L
    16. Dan Brouthers+ .4233 L
    17. Max Bishop .4227 L
    Joe Jackson .4227 L
    19. Mickey Mantle+ .4205 B
    20. Mickey Cochrane+ .4192 L
    21. Frank Thomas .4191 R
    22. Edgar Martinez .4178 R
    23. Stan Musial+ .4167 L

12. Jason
    September 20th, 2009 at 11:06 pm

    Oh and Jeff Francoeur definitely does suck at baseball.

13. Randall
    September 20th, 2009 at 11:55 pm

    Never fear, I am here — I have found the biggest idiot. His name is MSilva. Francoeur is just a bad baseball player, Silva is functionally retarded.

14. MetsKnicksRutgers
    September 21st, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    “September 20th, 2009 at 6:46 pm

    Hey Matt,

    If you haven’t noticed even the best hitters of all time make outs 70% of the time. Not sure we’re your going with that.”

    This is nearly the worst post I have ever seen with the exception of many metsblog posts. Not sure we are your going with that? If you threw the apostrophe in haven’t then obviously you were attempting to make that a legitimate sentence at which you failed miserably. And your belief that “the best hitters of all time make outs 70% of the time” has already been debunked. Bonds had a season where he made an out less than 40% of the time. I have a feeling the other Silva is merely a troll attempting to bait the relatively intelligent baseball fans, Similar to the various Joebaiters.

15. Spike
    September 21st, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    MKR – Agreed. This is must be a reverse Fire Joe Morgan or something. I’ve seen more baseball insight on the back of a Wheaties box. Nobody could really be this willfully obtuse. It takes a fair amount of commitment to plot out a parody this internally consistent – but in the words of my good pal Mark Twain, be not simply good, be good for something.

16. Coach (2010 or Bust)
    September 22nd, 2009 at 9:06 am

    Jeff Francoeur is superman personified. Dude has a rifle for an arm in RF and a million dollar smile. He swings from the heels with conviction. Few in baseball possess his combination of size, strength and power. the Mets took Atlanta to the cleaners with his acquisition from their division rivals.

    Take it from me, I’m a life long Braves fan. you guys got a real wing dinger in Frenchy! Better sign him long term before the Yankees come calling!

    p.s. SUUUUUUUCCCCCKEEEEEERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

17. A.West
    September 22nd, 2009 at 10:03 am

    Frenchy is great! Sign him to a long term deal before he gets away. As a Braves fan I can attest to him just being unlucky for the past 3 or 4 years! I mean, what are the odds of a guy hitting into a double play or striking out nearly every time the bases are loaded? The teenage girls in the stands know he’s better than that. Sign him for the next 3 years and his real talent is sure to show in New York.

18. MetsGod
    October 6th, 2009 at 11:37 am

    All of you shitheads….FUK OFF!

    Mike Silva makes an excellent point(or points) about Jeff and his value to this Mets team. Is he a superstar? Of course not. But he WILL be a very valuable “complementary” player for the Mets in the coming years.

    I hope the Mets DO give Francoeur that 3-year Deal extension RIGHT NOW if only to watch all of you MORONS’ heads explode while I laugh.

    Oh and to those, like Jason, who says that Francoeur sucks at baseball? Son, YOU SUCK AT LIFE.

    I can also tell that these replies are coming from members of amazinavenue.com aka Sabermetric-Geeks-And-Nerds-R-US.com

    Why don’t you all get a life….and a girlfriend (your right hand don’t count).

19. Jason
    October 6th, 2009 at 4:56 pm

    “Oh and to those, like Jason, who says that Francoeur sucks at baseball? Son, YOU SUCK AT LIFE.”

    Well, ok, but that really doesn’t change the fact that Francoeur sucks.

20. Chris Silva
    October 6th, 2009 at 5:24 pm

    Way to hard on Francoeur and I don’t understand it. I’m getting the feeling the dislike towards Francoeur is because people are still upset about the Milliedge trade. At this point, Francoeur is the what the Mets have to show for Milledge and I know he’s a big favorite amongst the SABR/metrics crowd. Guess it understandable but out of Milledge, Church, Schneider, and Francoeur, Frenchy the only guy that has done a thing for anybody over the last 2 years. Maybe a few years down the road we’ll kick ourselves for letting go of Milledge and ending up with Francoeur. But, to this point Francoeur has played well and until Milledge puts together a full season that demonstrates his “potential” I like what they’ve gotton for him.

21. Jason
    October 6th, 2009 at 5:50 pm

    No. There really isn’t any dislike for Francoeur, at least not from me. He’s just bad at baseball. And, considering his career .311 OBP, I don’t think that point is really up for debate.

    The last thing the Mets want to do is sign him to a three year contract. Or a one year contract. They should probably just non-tender him.

22. Chris Silva
    October 6th, 2009 at 5:55 pm

    It could be a risky move if they retain him. No guarentee that some job security puts out that fire we’ve seen from him in his time with the Mets. What are some other options they would have in RF?

23. Jason
    October 6th, 2009 at 6:26 pm

    Move Beltran to RF and find a long term solution in CF.

    It’s not risky to retain Francoeur. That would imply some sort of upside. There really isn’t any. 2400 major league PA’s have told us exactly what he is.

24. Chris Silva
    October 6th, 2009 at 7:28 pm

    Interesting idea. I’d entertain it because Beltran isn’t getting any younger and the move to RF might be easier on his body. This might fit in nicely with the idea of the Mets obtaining BJ Upton. Under that premise, I would pull the trigger on a Beltran/Upton combo. Mets need a #2 hitter to compliment Reyes. My only concern is that Beltran might block the way for Ike Davis who I think is the RF of the future.

25. Spike
    May 15th, 2010 at 11:01 am

    Well? Does he suck yet? Is there anything more he need show you? 106 outs in 143 PA’s – 3 more to crack the top ten!

26. James K.
    May 16th, 2010 at 3:02 am

    You’re wrong Spike — Jeff Francoeur is the tits. Who cares what his OBP or OPS or whatever crazy acronym they’re floating around is. Bottom line is he has a great smile and has had a tremendous impact on the clubhouse, actual on-field production takes a backseat to things like this. Only people who don’t bury their heads in spreadsheets can realize what a valuable player Jeff Francoeur is. Why would you think the mainstream media and Mike Silva, who spent the whole offseason sucking Francoeur off, would write about his terrible production? It’s just not important compared to his intangible, off-the-field qualities. Take THAT Moneyball!

27. Stu Baron
    May 16th, 2010 at 8:31 am

    That someone feels compelled to write that a player doesn’t suck speaks poorly about how that player is perceived…

28. Mike Silva
    May 16th, 2010 at 9:16 am

    Let me address this.

    No one, including me, is saying that Francoeur should be given a pass. He is being asked to be more of a part of this offense than realistically possible. Right now you are seeing the Frenchy of 2008 (clearly unacceptable). The good news is if Beltran is healthy (big if I know) than Pagan can play RF. I said this during the offseason and that is why I was willing to take risk on Francoeur who I believe could return to his 2007 offensive levels. I figured the Mets could get 1 of 2 from that group.

    I think the biggest problem with him is when he gets in a slump he doesn’t slow down and stay true to the process (what we saw the first 10 games) and goes back to his hacking ways.

    He also has been unlucky with some leather flashed at him. A few of those balls drop and who knows what kind of impact it has.

    I have been wrong on Francoeur, but I am not sure Chris Carter is actually can play the corner everyday. Maybe we will see.

    Also James, I saw you point out the whole draft pick scenario (with your Hotfoot commentary) with Carter and the Wagner trade. In spring training Wagner talked about how he ask Fred Wilpon to not pick up his option as he felt it would hurt his ability to sign with another club. The Wilpon’s are very good with those requests so if they didn’t trade Billy they would be left with nothing. Now the Sox wound up picking the option (probably why Billy was hesitant to approve the deal), but I think Atlanta could swallow the Sox getting 2 picks versus the Mets. Speculation on my part, but it was clear the Wilpon’s weren’t going to reneged on their promise. Remember, if they did, this is the kind of thing that could hurt future free agent dealings with the Mets.

29. James K.
    May 16th, 2010 at 10:31 am

    I didn’t write the Hot Foot commentary. And I don’t even know how that applies to the Francoeur situation. Later.

30. Spike
    May 16th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    He also has been unlucky with some leather flashed at him. A few of those balls drop and who knows what kind of impact it has.

    .215/.279/.369

    A few of those drop and you can upgrade his condition from laughingstock to merely disastrous. He’s just a poor hitter, your rabbit’s foot treatment of a small sample size from last year notwithstanding.

    Right now you are seeing the Frenchy of 2008 (clearly unacceptable).

    The Frenchy of 2009 (.280/.309/.423 93OPS+) was “clearly unacceptable”. You keep failing to see this, which accounts for why this piece was written in the first place.

31. James K.
    July 5th, 2010 at 12:13 am

    If this website has any purpose in the world, it’s to make me laugh when I re-read this hysterical post. Bravo. When I need a LOL I google “Jeff Francoeur does not suck” or “Suzyn Waldman Rogah Clemens” and I am satiated.

    Follow the money trail. And travel that trail with Alex Cora, Scott Schoeneweis, Jeff Francoeur and the Red Sox pathetic lineup. LMAO.

32. Mike Silva
    July 5th, 2010 at 8:50 am

    Well if it gave you a laugh then I say “mission accomplished”

    As for your obsession with Mr. Francoeur, I would consult a good psychologist because I can’t help you there. Follow the money trail? The sabr website crowd, including AA, has come pretty clean they are aiming for jobs in baseball. Much like the interns at my company, they will have them do nice presentations, give them applause, and probably sit them in the back room, largely ignoring their findings, but of course they are getting paid (very little) for it so kudos for it. I think it’s cute how some openly state they want to be a GM in discussion. If they knew what a closed club MLB is (that would require talking to people in the game and not running numbers), they would realize how unrealistic that goal is.

    The amount of time you spend trashing people could be spent learning more about the game. Thus far, I am unimpressed with the development of your writing style and baseball knowledge.

    It’s a shame, because you have good things to offer, but tarnish that with snark and jealousy of others.

    Glad I could be a positive impact in your life with this post. Francoeur has disappointed, but I don’t think he is as bad as you portray.

33. James K.
    July 5th, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    I am shocked — SHOCKED — that you don’t have complimentary things to say about me or my writing. But thank you for continuing to read, cause I sure as heck don’t read this site anymore. Also I’d put my overall knowledge of the game up against yours anyday. A simple look into sabermetrics could have prevented your nonstop offseason posts about how Jeff Francoeur is awesome and Alex Cora is good and the Red Sox offense is terrible, or whatever other nonsense you were promoting.

    I’ve made no designs about working in an MLB front office, I don’t know where you got that from. I have a pretty good job with a great company and am happy with my situation. I mean, it’s no Fortune 500 distributing cancer, umm, I mean cigarettes, like you have but it’s something.

    My snark is reserved for people that deserve it, like yourself and people with ridiculous fake GM campaigns.

34. Stu B
    July 5th, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    Yo James, if you don’t read this site anymore, why are you still posting comments?

35. Mike Silva
    July 5th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    You see, those are the personal attacks on me, Howard, and all throughout the internet that perplex me. We are talking about BASEBALL, and you have made it clear to others that your goal is to destroy the credibility of any site that you DON’T AGREE WITH, or more appropriately, doesn’t buy into 100% of your ideology. And yes, my issue with sabermetrics is the ideology part which Bill Baer appropriately outlined in a blog post well over a month ago. This isn’t about creating more useful tools, but to gain power and access which in turn, equals money (hence follow the money trail, as an accountant you should know that very well)

    You do realize you have been wrong? Adam Everett for one. This site is about opinion, entertainment, and having fun, not writing a thesis paper on advanced trigonometry. If that is what you want, God bless, to each his own. You are in the wrong place.

    To attack the way I make money, especially considering your industry has been at the forefront of the biggest financial scams in modern history is very ironic. Accounting, just like stats, makes a lot of things look a certain way that may not tell the whole picture.

    I know full well you come here and don’t comment, as well as many AA readers. You don’t want to link me, like me, or have a beer with me – fine. I really don’t care, as you could tell. It hasn’t hurt the site’s growth or my will to churn out content. I have no agenda – unlike others.

    But to sit here and trash everything just makes you look small. Your better than that, but you let your jealousy, anger, and whatever else bugs you about the internet get in the way of your growth as a writer and baseball authority. That is why you are not respected as much as you should be. Because, deep down, you do good work, but can’t get over your penchant to be an internet bully. That doesn’t fly here.

    Since this is no longer about Francoeur, but about personally attacking me, I am closing the comments. Something I hate to do, but I am afraid will take us away from our goal of talking baseball.