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Rosenthal Sparks the MVP Flame


By Mike Silva ~ September 17th, 2009. Filed under: Mike Silva.

Just when you thought it was safe to talk about the MVP Ken Rosenthal weighs in with this piece over at FoxSports.com

If you remember, and if you come here frequently how can you forget, we had a spirited discussion about my statement that Mark Teixeira is the league MVP. Rob Neyer, Dayn Perry, and others weighed in on a debate that was really started by Tyler Kepner of the NY Times. It ran out of control and morphed into a sabermetrics debate on this site.

Despite the somewhat harsh criticism that I was subjected to, I learned a great deal from the situation. First, I had a better understand of the sabr position and some of the reasons why they value certain modern statistical analysis. In the end I believed the MVP was a subjective discussion that had no “right” or “wrong” method of determining one’s answer. The sabr crowd wasn’t wrong, nor was I. It simply was a matter of interpretation. Thankfully someone in the mainstream media has started to see my point of view. Rosenthal had the following to say:

Last I checked, it’s a free country. Last I checked, the MVP is a subjective choice. Yes, voters from the Baseball Writers’ Association of America occasionally screw up. But the beauty of the award, as outlined by the instructions given to voters, is “there is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means.” Which, of course, drives sabermetricians nuts.

As of this morning Mark Teixeira is hitting .286 with 35 HRs and 112 RBI. His OPS is .936. For the sake of appeasing the sabr crowd his WAR is 4.6, the second highest of his career. Why did I cite that number? Right now he is the difference between an AL East race and reality, which is the Yankees comfortably ahead. On the flip side Joe Mauer is hitting .374 with 27 homers and 87 RBI. His OPS is over 1.000. Don’t forget he missed about a month of the season so who knows how that would impacted the numbers. His WAR is an incredible 7.5. What did those eight wins mean right now? The Minnesota Twins are a stone’s throw from first place in an awful division. When I look at an MVP I think the player that impacts a team’s won/loss record takes precedence over individual dominance. There is no doubt Mauer is dominant, no wait, insane domination for his position, but it hasn’t translated into the Twins being a contending team. Is that all his fault?No, but you can’t deny that if Teixeira was wearing a “B” on his hat instead of an “NY” we might be talking about a second straight year of no postseason baseball in the Bronx.

Of course that is my opinion which is no better than yours. That is why sportswriters rotate their vote and it’s not one person determining the award. Kudos to Ken Rosenthal for pointing out that it’s ok to have diverse opinions and intellectual debate on this topic.

Mike Silva is a freelance writer and radio host since March of 2007. This website is his own personal "digest" of New York Baseball He's also hosts NYBD Radio on Blog Talk Radio and 1240 AM WGBB. Check out his sports media commentary at www.sportsmediawatchdog.com. Check out his official website, www.mikesilvamedia.com
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14 Responses to Rosenthal Sparks the MVP Flame

  1. Nick N.
    September 17th, 2009 at 10:41 am

    No, but you can’t deny that if Teixeira was wearing a “B” on his hat instead of an “NY” we might be talking about a second straight year of no postseason baseball in the Bronx.

    Um, yes I can. The Yankees have seven players in their lineup other than Teixeira with an 20+ HR and an 850+ OPS. That offense would be utterly dominant if Doug Mientkiewicz was starting first base. They bought themselves a pretty damn decent pitching staff as well.

    I know you guys live in your own little world over there where nothing outside of the AL East matters and every other division is a pathetic minor-league pest, but the Twins don’t have the luxury of spending $300 million in an offseason and buying all the best free agents to support Mauer. Once again, the MVP is the game’s highest individual honor and I fail to see why a player should be punished for things that are completely out of his control.

  2. David Allan
    September 17th, 2009 at 11:00 am

    Mike,

    Don’t you crush your own Tex argument in this post?

    “When I look at an MVP I think the player that impacts a team’s won/loss record takes precedence over individual dominance.”

    Mauer’s WAR is 7.5 says that without him the Twins aren’t even close, where at Tex’s 4.6 means that they are 2 or so games up on the Sox in the Bronx.

    Again all just opinions, but I think you’ve managed to in your attempt to explain your Teixeira pick to make the case for Mauer.

    On top of domiating offensively in the American League, Mauer has the Twins 4.5 out in the division, vs. the 13 games or so they would be. I think 13 games out in the central with the replacement player instead of Mauer shows how poor the Twins are and how remarkable his season and impact on the twins has been.

    Just my thoughts.

  3. Jason
    September 17th, 2009 at 5:57 pm

    This is from Joe Posnanski’s blog today on the subject:

    “Bill James once made this MVP argument using poker as an example. He wrote how just because a player wins with three eights, that doesn’t make any of those eights as good as an Ace. And I remember sending him a devil’s advocate email saying “But in that particular poker hand, where the player wins with the 8s, doesn’t that mean that the 8 IS actually more valuable?” And he wrote back asking the perfect question: “OK, which of the three 8s is most valuable then?”

  4. Chris Silva
    September 17th, 2009 at 6:27 pm

    Bill James is a quack. Let’s be fair on this one. That poker statement shows the propaganda and brainwashing this guy is looking for. No Bill the 8 isn’t more valuable than the Ace but the hand is more valuable than the ace. Shows how much bull this guy is spewing. Your on the payroll Bill, ENOUGH!

  5. James K.
    September 17th, 2009 at 7:22 pm

    Chris Silva,

    A. Bill James is not a quack. He is one of the best baseball writers of all time. I’d bet money you’ve never read his excellent work. He’s a better storyteller than sabermetrician.

    B. You clearly don’t understand the analogy, but that’s not surprising. Think of the 3 8′s as the Yankees and the pair of aces as the Twins. The 8′s, as a whole, are better than the aces (just like the Yanks are better than the Twins) but taken individually the aces are more valuable. Mauer is an Ace this year.

    C. Your continued insinuations that people research baseball and create bogus statistics with the sole intention of making money is insulting and ignorant. Bill James has 2 World Series rings. And he earned them.

  6. Jason
    September 17th, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    Well Chris, that’s the point. Yes the entire hand is more valuable than the ace, but individually, an ace is more valuable than an 8. And the MVP is an individual award.

  7. Chris Silva
    September 17th, 2009 at 8:10 pm

    Bill James has World Series Rings is great for him. I don’t recall which position he played on the field? Alot of people get rings in the organization. In fact, the entire front office does but not quite sure that means they’re the reason for it. The fact you attribute Bill James to those rings is not only silly but very pompous. Yes, he is a quack and the fact that he has to push his agenda so cultishly and hard shows how fradulent the concept is. We both know the role Bill and his quackery play in the game. Plus, there’s not stupid people here we’re smart enough to know Bill isn’t part of major decisions here. If you do think that, then you got lots of surprises that you’ll find throughout life.

  8. James K.
    September 17th, 2009 at 8:49 pm

    LOL to that last response. Good stuff.

  9. Jason
    September 17th, 2009 at 9:23 pm

    Chris you seem like a rational guy…not (insert Borat voice)

    /kicks self in nuts for outdated social reference

  10. Chris Silva
    September 17th, 2009 at 9:37 pm

    Wow. Well, we encourage all types of humor even that lacking originality. I’m not well versed on the dorm room humor but I should insight myself more on it.

  11. James K.
    September 17th, 2009 at 9:47 pm

    How does one “insight” himself?

  12. Jason
    September 17th, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    Chris, I’d like you to “insight” me with some logic and reason. But I’m sure that’s just as likely as you “insighting” yourself more on dorm room humor.

  13. JE
    September 18th, 2009 at 12:12 am

    Another excellent quote from the Posnanski column:

    “… We baseball writers and broadcasters for years have had a monopoly on presenting the game. Pitching was 90 percent of baseball because we said so. Managers needed to bunt more because we said so. Pitchers needed to go nine innings and pitch through pain because we said so. You judged a hitter on his batting average, a pitcher on his victories, a fielder on the number of errors he made, a player on his ability to perform when the chips are down — all because we said so. You know what? We were pretty stupid.”

    http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/09/17/a-free-country/

  14. Robert
    September 20th, 2009 at 6:51 am

    Chris Silva, you are simply wrong, and calling Bill James names shows that your argument fails miserably. Name-calling is the last bastion of a losing argument.

    As for the MVP debate: let’s wait until the season is over, OK? Will Mauer bat .370 and win the batting title while hitting 30 HR and 90+ RBI? Will he fade? Teixeira seemed all but out of it until tonight, when he hit two HR’s and went 4/5. But at .289 he’s still 84 batting points below Mauer, and does not (yet) lead the league in HR’s. He has less HR’s than Mark Reynolds.

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