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Clear Anti New York Bias in Award Voting


By Mike Silva ~ August 20th, 2009. Filed under: Mike Silva.

The MVP debate just can’t die. The scribes in Minnesota heard yesterday about the controversy, first started by the NY Times Tyler Kepner on Friday, via their carrier pigeon. I am being facetious of course, but it’s ironic that it took so long to hear from one of the scribes in Joe Mauer’s hometown.

Charley Walters of the Pioneer Press wrote about how Joe Mauer would be the “clear cut” MVP if he played in New York, Los Angeles, or Boston. I can’t say he is completely wrong, but history indicates that the bigger markets, especially New York, receive the short end of the stick when it comes to award voting. That is why I find it laughable that a Minnesota writer, just a few years after Justin Morneau beat out Derek Jeter for the MVP, is complaining about the disadvantage of the small market, when in reality, some of the biggest New York baseball stars have been passed over for both the MVP and Cy Young award.

Look at the case of Darryl Strawberry, who was passed over four times (87, 88, 90, 91) while in his prime. The most egregious of the four is 1988 when Kirk Gibson and his 76 RBI’s beat out the Straw Man who put up 39 homers, 100 RBI’s, and an OPS of .911.  Think about this, we are scoffing at Mark Teixeira’s .934 OPS, but Gibson wins the award with an OPS less than Johnny Damon in 2009. Let’s not forget when Strawberry played in Los Angeles, another member of the baseball “axis of evil”, he lost out to Terry Pendleton, a member of the up and coming Atlanta Braves.

The Yankees have won four World Series the last fifteen years, yet have only one award winner (Roger Clemens Cy Young in 2003). Don Mattingly won in 1985, but arguably had a better all around season in 1986 yielded a second place finish in the MVP voting (Clemens again). Obviously the aura of the pinstripes didn’t sway the voters in both championship and non championship years. For every 2003 Clemens Cy Young you have a Johan Santana, or Frank Viola, who could easily won the award. A New York uniform did neither of them any good.

Finally, the biggest crime might be the fact that Mike Piazza never won an MVP. All week I have heard about the “catcher valuation”, but never remember Piazza given the same respect during his prime. In 1997 and 2000 Piazza clearly was the difference maker for flawed teams that made the playoffs. In each scenario he lost to a player at a “less valuable position” in Larry Walker and Jeff Kent. Again, that nasty Los Angeles/New York advantage did not sway the vote. As a matter of fact, Mauer is being lauded for a historic season that was already accomplished by Piazza over a decade earlier.

Obviously New York, Boston, and Los Angeles do not guarantee anything but more endorsement dollars. Would Joe Mauer be in a better public position if he played on the coast? Absolutely, but the same argument against Teixeira would be levied against Mauer. If the roles were reversed, don’t you think everyone would be saying how hard it is for Mark Teixeira to produce in a depleted Minnesota lineup? Wouldn’t Mauer be ridiculed for being surrounded by millions of dollars of offensive talent? I think we all know the answer.

You can award the MVP to Joe Mauer. Honestly, when it’s all said and done, I believe he is going to wind up winning it hands down. Teixeira might have a more important piece of hardware in a World Series ring. You can cite a ton of advantages New York has in the sport of baseball. Winning individual awards quite simply is not one of them.

Mike Silva is a freelance writer and radio host since March of 2007. This website is his own personal "digest" of New York Baseball He's also hosts NYBD Radio on Blog Talk Radio and 1240 AM WGBB. Check out his sports media commentary at www.sportsmediawatchdog.com. Check out his official website, www.mikesilvamedia.com
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25 Responses to Clear Anti New York Bias in Award Voting

  1. Phil
    August 20th, 2009 at 9:27 am

    Joe Mauer leads the league in BA, OBP, and OPS. Mike Piazza didn’t lead the league in any of those categories in 1997 or 2000. Its not because Mauer is a catcher that he should win the MVP, its because he has been the best hitter in the AL without question. The fact he’s a catcher helps, but its not the main reason why he should win. You should just admit you were wrong about Mauer and move on.

  2. Phil
    August 20th, 2009 at 9:29 am

    And slugging pct. sorry forgot that one

  3. David Allan
    August 20th, 2009 at 9:35 am

    “Think about this, we are scoffing at Mark Teixeira’s .934 OPS, but Gibson wins the award with an OPS less than Johnny Damon in 2009″ – I don’t think we’re scoffing, I think we’re getting it right.

    Lets compare Tiexeira to Mauer and his .380/.448/.648/1.095.

    In 38 votess since 1970, Boston, and New York have one 8 MVP’s in the 30 years before that they won 18.

    I think we more access, and more information the bias is shrinking, because I personally live in Toronto. So I now see games on the west coast or in the mid-west through things like enhanced, regional cable sports, mlb.tv, etc.

    I don’t think this is anti-new york, and I think the bias their once was is lessening because people are being exposed more regularly to other teams, rather than a four game set here or there.

    So I’d say rather than what you think is an anti-new york sentiment. Is the redistribution of votes based on increased knowledge of players in smaller markets.

    Do the voters get it wrong? Sure they do….Hall of Fame Voters get it wrong, Cy Young Voters get it wrong, MVP Voters get it wrong, but if Mauer wins the AL MVP, this time isn’t necessarily going to be one of them.

    Teixieira isn’t going to lose that vote because he’s from New York.

    He’s going to lose it cause the guy that won the batting title, combined that with an OPS of over 1.000.

    Right now, Teixeira is playing great, Mauer is out hitting him by .100 points, and out slugging him by almost another .100 points.

    Mauers RBI/AB numbers are better, as is his HR/AB (slightly 14.6 vs 14.8)

    If their is anti-NY big market bias as you say, this is a poor year to try to prove your case.

  4. Nick N.
    August 20th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    The voting panel for the MVP Award has equal representation across the league so you don’t see the large-market bias with the voting here (unlike, say, the All-Star Game). The annoying bias is toward tradition factors like RBI and team success at the expense of better barometers of individual performance and value.

    By the by, I know you’re getting a lot of criticism on this topic Mike (and it’s warranted), but I just want to say thanks for handling it with dignity and humility, and for reacting by engaging in intelligent discourse rather than resorting to bitter sarcasm or hostility. I think your arguments in Teixeira’s favor are off-base, but your demeanor in discussing the manner has kept me coming back to the site.

  5. Mike Silva
    August 20th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    No problem Nick. The debate is a large part of the fun.

    I think one of the issues with the nasty comments is anti NY (not from you, but it exists) on the internet, a bored Mets fan base, and a Yankees team that is running away with it. Sometimes I believe my position on Joba has made everything I say about the Yankees create a stir. There are also a couple of sites that don’t particularly like my train of thought and, unfortunately, have a small % of their members that enjoy personal attacks. It happens, its not the sites fault, its the poster. I always said that if you want to put yourself in the public eye you have to take the punches that come. In the end I believe Mauer will make this debate very moot.

  6. Phil
    August 20th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

    I can only speak for myself, but my comments have nothing to do with anti-NY bias, the boring Mets, or the success of the Yankees. It has everything to do with the Tyler Kepner twitter post which sparked the debate, and the posts by you and others since then. I feel like we’re witnessing history this year with Joe Mauer and thats why I and obviously quite a large number of other people are passionate about the debate.

    You’re being cool in that you are engaging lowly working folk like me and everyone else posting, and I appreciate that. But I am honestly baffled by some the stuff you say. I’m a Boston guy, and I always want the Sox to win and I love to root for my boys. But I am a baseball fan more so than a Red Sox fan so when a guy like Mauer has the type of season he’s having I think everyone should pay attention to it and appreciate and recognize for what it is.

    Thanks for engaging the debate, and giving alot of people who oppose you the forum to argue with you. You’re demonstrably wrong about Mauer, I bet those ego bruises will heal up alot quicker when you concede defeat.

  7. Mike Silva
    August 20th, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    Phil

    The only thing wrong you said “is lowly working folks”, being that radio and writing doesn’t feed the family, that is exactly what I consider myself – a working guy who is passionate about the game and spends time talking about it. Your opinion matters just as much, and is taken seriously because of the way you present it. Many could learn from you. Thanks for reading.

    Btw- if he didn’t tank, or get hurt, I was considering Jason Bay back in late May/early June. Of course the Sox were in a different position than and Mauer had just come back. As you can see, things can change very quickly.

  8. Jason
    August 20th, 2009 at 6:24 pm

    Hey Mike,

    Just curious, do you think that if Teixeira were on the Twins they’d be in contention? Or that the Yankees would be worse off with Mauer?

  9. Matt Vorwald
    August 20th, 2009 at 6:46 pm

    Current Team Ranks
    ——————————————
    ————BA—-OBP—-SLG—–OPS
    Yankees—2——-1——-1———1
    Twins——4——-8——-9———8
    ——————————————
    Without Teixeira or Mauer
    ——————————————
    Yankees—2——-2——-1———1
    Twins—–20——18——22——-21

    How can one look at this discrepancy and still continue to argue that Teixeira is more valuable, while maintaining a straight face?

    It’s remarkable how little the Yankees would miss Teixeira… he is certainly not a difference-maker when you consider this analysis. The Yankees would be nearly identical with/without him. The Twins, on the other hand, would go from having a fighting chance in their division, to being the Kansas City Royals.

  10. Mike Silva
    August 20th, 2009 at 11:20 pm

    Jason

    I think we would be having the same argument in some respects. Of course, Mauer having a record season on the Yanks makes him a shoo in MVP. I bet you would have many that would say, look at the players around him, the big point I want people to understand is that there isn’t just one way to look at MVP. It’s very much up to voter discretion.

  11. Jason
    August 21st, 2009 at 11:27 am

    People that say, “look at the players around him,” are wrong if they’re arguing to discount Teixeira’s stats. He’s having a great year and should get credit for that.

    But neither player should get credit for the wins and losses of the team. Even if Mauer was hitting like Barry Bonds in 2002 the Twins still wouldn’t be leading the division. And if Teixeira were hitting like Nick Swisher the Yankees would still be in first place.

    So while voters in the past have unfairly given players a bump in the voting due to team performance, arguing that we should continue that practice when we know better is wrong.

  12. Mike Silva
    August 21st, 2009 at 11:35 am

    Jason

    Bonds in ’02 is a perfect example of a team benefiting from one player. Just put a very good player as a replacement and the Giants might not be as good.

  13. Jason
    August 21st, 2009 at 12:28 pm

    I totally agree, Bonds’ 02 was arguably the greatest single season ever. And he was only worth ~13 wins above replacement by himself. (I know you have problems with WAR, but almost all of Bond’s value was offensive, so I think we can agree that in this case it’s fairly accurate)

    13 wins is an incredibly huge amount for one player to contribute. That should put the whole “he lead his team to the playoffs” argument into perspective.

    Can we really say that Teixeira, who is having a great year but nothing historic…arguably not even the best among first basemen this year, could really be responsible for the 18 games that separate the Yankees and the Twins?

  14. Mike Silva
    August 21st, 2009 at 12:52 pm

    No, can’t be responsible for 18 games.

    I don’t have anything against WAR, just those who use it as a primary method of evaluation (I have seen that). Tim Redding is 0.1 WAR. I think he clearly is worse than your average replacement player :)

    13 wins is clearly the difference between the playoffs and also ran.

    Who knows, maybe the Yankees are 15 games up with Mauer? I think Teixeira’s main value is that he has demphasized A-Rod on the field and in the clubhouse. No one complains about Alex because he is a complementary player. Only a slugger, like Teixeira (Top 15 hitter in game), could accomplish that.

  15. Jason
    August 21st, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    I think this is where a lot of the frustration stems. How do you quantify that? How do you argue with any certainty at all about any sort of deemphasizing of Arod and whether or not it’s good or bad? Arod’s been injured and isn’t having one of his best years, but he’s usually one of the two or three best players in baseball. Why would you want to deemphasize him?

    Also, you seem to be changing your argument, while the other side has been pretty consistent – Mauer, based on his offensive and defensive output, has been much more valuable.

  16. Mike Silva
    August 21st, 2009 at 1:53 pm

    Jason

    You can’t numerically quantify everything in baseball IMO. That is why I believe anyone voting for the award needs to talk to those that cover the team.

    Joel Sherman wrote about this very same thing in a column earlier this week. Take a read, I found it interesting and crystalized the importance of Tex.

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/08162009/sports/yankees/fun_loving_newcomers_help_cream_rise_to__184824.htm?&page=1

  17. Jason
    August 21st, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    “You can’t numerically quantify everything in baseball” For the sake of this argument, let’s allow that to be true. That everything in baseball can’t be quantified and that intangibles are actually important, and even that somehow the Yankees have deemphasized A-rod (whatever that means).

    1. How is this good? Arod’s having a below average (for him) year, wouldn’t the Yankees be even better if he was puting up his usual 300/390/575 as opposed to the 250/390/490 (which is still pretty good) he’s hitting this year? How has this deemphasis specifically helped the team?

    2. If you can argue the positive of Arod playing worse than last year, how is this attributable to Teixeira alone?

    3. If you can argue that the deemphasis is good, and that it’s attributable to Teixeira, how do you value this higher than the season Mauer is having?

  18. Mike Silva
    August 21st, 2009 at 2:30 pm

    What I meant by deemphasize is that you don’t make him the story and create uneccessary tension on the team. NY is a boiler plate, and even the most talented teams can fall prey to media distractions. Prime example were the 2006 Yankees (Torre batting A-Rod eighth etc etc)

    A-Rod is compromised, that is a large part to his decline this year. The surgery was meant to patch him up, not fix him. If you were waiting for him to come back and be the savior than the Yanks would have a huge hole in the cleanup spot. A-Rod is allowed to be himself, stand in the background, and just play ball. That makes for a very dangerous A-Rod.

    Nothing can be attributed directly to Teixeira. Obviously intangibles don’t metrically match up. I continue to cite examples, like Kirk Gibson in 88, where sports writers used my line of thinking in the MVP. I think the vote is deeper than numbers and that is why writers do the voting and not simply a machine.

    Think about the Heisman Trophy, does the best statistical player always win?

  19. Jason
    August 21st, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    “A-Rod is allowed to be himself, stand in the background, and just play ball”

    But he’s not playing as well…so is this good?

    “Nothing can be attributed directly to Teixeira”

    So maybe we should use other, more important, easier to measure criteria to award the MVP…like the strength of a player’s offense and defense.

    “I continue to cite examples, like Kirk Gibson in 88, where sports writers used my line of thinking in the MVP”

    Because the writers made a mistake in the past, we should continue to make the same mistake, even though our understanding of the game has improved by leaps and bounds in the last 20 years?

    “Think about the Heisman Trophy, does the best statistical player always win?”

    That’s not even fruit, you’re comparing apples and cheesburgers. Different sport, with different criteria, on an award that is even more controversial.

  20. James K.
    August 21st, 2009 at 4:03 pm

    “You can’t numerically quantify everything in baseball IMO. That is why I believe anyone voting for the award needs to talk to those that cover the team.”

    This problematic for an obvious reason – the beat writers only cover 1 team, not all of them. How can a Kepner or a Sherman determine that the intangibles provided by Teixeira are greater than the intangibles provided by a Mauer?

    This discussion was drawn out about 5 days too long. I think even Mike realizes by now that if the season ended today, Mauer is the MVP.

  21. Matt Vorwald
    August 24th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    Mike continues to argue ridiculous viewpoints which are of no relation to measuring the MVP, such as the “deemphasis” theory above…

    How can you possibly argue that A-Rod’s drop in production can be a positive thing for Teixeira?

    1. You can’t be serious by arguing that making someone on your team WORSE is a trait of an MVP caliber player. I think the idea is to make those around you play BETTER.

    2. Even if you can argue that making A-Rod less valuable is a good thing, how on earth do you legitimize a logical tie between Teixeira and A-Rod’s year? It’s silly, for sure, and possibly insane.

  22. Mike Silva
    August 24th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

    Matt

    Not that this will matter, but both Jim Duquette and Seth Everett called Teixeira the unanimous MVP. Now, I don’t agree he should be unanimous, but others in the media seem to be thinking along my lines as well.

  23. Jason
    August 24th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    Is that really a viable argument? Other people agree with me.

  24. Jason
    August 24th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

    Because if we’re going to go down that road, here’s Sheehan (probably one the the best baseball writers in the country – and a Yankee fan) giving his take:

    You’ve probably read in any number of places about the split in opinion over who should be the frontrunner for the American League MVP Award. I’ve stayed out of it, and I’ve done so for exceptionally arrogant reasons. The idea that anyone other than Joe Mauer is the most valuable player in the league is a joke. Mauer leads the league in OBP and SLG, and also leads in VORP and EQR despite missing nearly a month, and he does all these things while being one of the best defensive catchers in the game. It’s not that Mauer is the best player in the league; it’s that he’s so far and away the best player in the league, dominating the field in a way we haven’t seen since the early-2000s versions of Barry Bonds. The arguments for anyone else, from legitimate runner-ups like Ben Zobrist and Derek Jeter to the quixotic attempt to call Mark Teixeira the most deserving, are all laughable. Joe Mauer is the AL MVP, and I fully expect the voters to get there by October 6.

  25. NYJ
    September 28th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

    Don’t forget Jim Rice won the ’78 MVP because “pitchers have their own award” (Ron Guidry was 25-3, 1.74) and yet 8 years later Clemens (24-4, 2.48) wins the MVP over Mattingly (led the league with 238 hits, 53 doubles, 388 total bases, and a .573 slugging percentage, batted .352 [2nd in the league], hit 31 home runs [6th] and drove in 113 runs [3rd] AND won the Gold Glove).

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